UI meeting 2 (13th June)

= Outcome=

David Hardisty (dhardisty) and Jon Westfall (jwestfall) agree to help with testing LimeSurvey's usability, through letting "interns" and survey novices to use LimeSurvey 2.

Please, continue to send UI ideas and concepts to Holger (holch): holger at rothemund dot org. Widget and dashboard specific requirements and ideas should go to Hai (macduy): macduy at limesurvey dot org. In any case, CC to Carsten (cschmitz): carsten dot schmitz at limesurvey dot org.

= Log=

[13 Jun 09 14:09] * c_schmitz * hye

[13 Jun 09 14:09] * macduy * hi all

[13 Jun 09 14:09] * c_schmitz * sorry for being late

[13 Jun 09 14:11] * c_schmitz * so, who is taking the lead on this?

[13 Jun 09 14:12] * macduy * :) I'll start then

[13 Jun 09 14:13] * macduy * dhadirsty, you replied to the forums about LS2 UI

[13 Jun 09 14:13] * dhardisty * yep

[13 Jun 09 14:13] * c_schmitz * URL?

[13 Jun 09 14:13] * macduy * what were your initial impressions of LS2, then?

[13 Jun 09 14:14] * macduy * (@all: http://www.limesurvey.org/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,105/func,view/catid,11/id,27466/lang,en/)

[13 Jun 09 14:14] * dhardisty * I'm a PhD student in psychology at Columbia, and we use an old version of LimeSurvey all the time

[13 Jun 09 14:14] * dhardisty * jwestfall here is a postdoc who just joined our research lab

[13 Jun 09 14:14] * jwestfall * (FWIW, I'm a postdoc at Columbia working in the same lab as dhardisty)

[13 Jun 09 14:15] * macduy * hi

[13 Jun 09 14:15] * c_schmitz * nice, hi

[13 Jun 09 14:15] * dhardisty * overall, the new interface is slick, but there are definitely a few things that are unintuitive

[13 Jun 09 14:15] > _rakete_ has joined

[13 Jun 09 14:16] * macduy * please detail:

[13 Jun 09 14:16] * dhardisty * before I discuss any of those, I want to offer our resources if you want them in the future, particularly if you ever want testing of particular features, and/or testing by naive users

[13 Jun 09 14:16] * dhardisty * we have a lot of research assistants, so we have some labor available

[13 Jun 09 14:17] * dhardisty * as for problems:

[13 Jun 09 14:17] * dhardisty * as has been discussed before, assignments is confusing

[13 Jun 09 14:17] * dhardisty * for example, I had a research assistant try to make a survey

[13 Jun 09 14:18] * dhardisty * and everything went fairly smoothly

[13 Jun 09 14:18] * dhardisty * and she thought she finished

[13 Jun 09 14:18] * dhardisty * but she never assigned it

[13 Jun 09 14:18] * dhardisty * and she didn't realize she needed to

[13 Jun 09 14:18] * dhardisty * so she also couldn't figure out how to run the survey

[13 Jun 09 14:19] * macduy * I see, I presume that most people will have this difficulty

[13 Jun 09 14:19] * dhardisty * so, in addition to changing the name "assignments" (or maybe adding some popup help to explain or something), I think it would also be useful to have something on the survey design page

[13 Jun 09 14:20] * macduy * assignments might have a confusing name, but the concept of it is quite powerful, so

[13 Jun 09 14:20] * dhardisty * maybe a note saying "this survey is not active yet, click here to enable it" or whatever

[13 Jun 09 14:21] * macduy * in the last meeting, it was concluded that an appropriate wizard is to be created that will guide the user from naming their survey, to activating it

[13 Jun 09 14:21] * c_schmitz * well 'quite powerful' is nice but I also agree that 60% of the users won't need the power

[13 Jun 09 14:21] * macduy * yes, so we will hide the term "assignment"

[13 Jun 09 14:21] * macduy * and at the end of the survey building process, we simply offer the choice of "activating" the survey

[13 Jun 09 14:21] * macduy * whereas power users can later on find out about assignments.

[13 Jun 09 14:22] * c_schmitz * assignments result from the fact that the new LimeSurvey 2 is a real panel system

[13 Jun 09 14:22] * dhardisty * I think the wizard is a good idea

[13 Jun 09 14:22] * jwestfall * So perhaps a wizard mode for quick survey creation, and a "manual" mode that would let power users tweak things to their liking

[13 Jun 09 14:22] * dhardisty * yeah

[13 Jun 09 14:22] * macduy * yep, that's the idea

[13 Jun 09 14:23] * macduy * nonetheless, it has been established that the wizard design is to come in later stages of UI development

[13 Jun 09 14:23] * dhardisty * is it possible yet to view or export the results?

[13 Jun 09 14:23] * macduy * yes

[13 Jun 09 14:24] * dhardisty * where is it? I couldn't find it easily

[13 Jun 09 14:24] * macduy * sure: Dashboard -> Survey-list, one of the buttons will say "Browse results"

[13 Jun 09 14:24] * macduy * you can try it on demo2.limesurvey.org, user: test, pass: test

[13 Jun 09 14:25] * dhardisty * thanks -- we set up an install on one of our servers, and I still don't see the browse option. I'll try your install

[13 Jun 09 14:25] * dhardisty * jon, do you see it?

[13 Jun 09 14:26] * jwestfall * I'll take a quick look, brb

[13 Jun 09 14:26] * macduy * ah, there's a small image loading issue :)

[13 Jun 09 14:26] * macduy * if you look into the Actions column

[13 Jun 09 14:27] * macduy * it is seemingly empty, but there are links, which are missing icons.

[13 Jun 09 14:27] * dhardisty * ah, ok, thanks!

[13 Jun 09 14:28] * macduy * that was not intentional, it's simply a bug ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:28] * jwestfall * Yep, it's there, just hidden

[13 Jun 09 14:29] * macduy * from there, you can view and export to CSV

[13 Jun 09 14:29] * macduy * currently, that is the only supported format, but more will come in the future

[13 Jun 09 14:30] * dhardisty * next: maybe the wizard will take care of this, but probably the first time someone uses LimeSurvey, they first want to make a survey (just a guess ;), so it would be nice start them on the "new survey" page or wizard automatically

[13 Jun 09 14:30] * dhardisty * or have an easy link to it

[13 Jun 09 14:30] * c_schmitz * dhardisty

[13 Jun 09 14:30] * dhardisty * of course you can find it eventually, but we want to make it very easy

[13 Jun 09 14:30] * c_schmitz * what we need is that someone proposes a good solution for the general application structure

[13 Jun 09 14:30] * c_schmitz * wo the screens are connected

[13 Jun 09 14:30] * c_schmitz * etc.

[13 Jun 09 14:31] * c_schmitz * just to start somwhere

[13 Jun 09 14:31] * macduy * and that is what holch has volunteered to help us with

[13 Jun 09 14:31] * c_schmitz * as you can see the main structure is not even there yet

[13 Jun 09 14:32] * dhardisty * is holch here?

[13 Jun 09 14:32] > Mazi has joined

[13 Jun 09 14:32] * c_schmitz * I am under the impression that Holch does not have enough time

[13 Jun 09 14:32] * c_schmitz * he is on a busness trip, afaik

[13 Jun 09 14:32] * dhardisty * I see

[13 Jun 09 14:33] * dhardisty * perhaps we should work with him to support him, in that case

[13 Jun 09 14:33] * c_schmitz * so if you have potential in your departement to help

[13 Jun 09 14:33] * c_schmitz * we would be thrilled

[13 Jun 09 14:34] * jwestfall * Well, like dhardisty said, we have research assistants that will eventually be working with LS2, so having them jump in now and test features seems like a good idea to us

[13 Jun 09 14:34] * c_schmitz * like interns?

[13 Jun 09 14:34] * dhardisty * or if he has no time at all, we could perhaps take the lead, although we don't have as much expertise in UI as him, so it would be really nice if he could direct things

[13 Jun 09 14:34] * dhardisty * yes, like interns

[13 Jun 09 14:34] * jwestfall * and along the way they can help by letting the devs and designers know what they had trouble with

[13 Jun 09 14:35] * c_schmitz * sounds nice to me

[13 Jun 09 14:35] * dhardisty * some of them have used an old version of limesurvey, phpsurveyor

[13 Jun 09 14:35] * dhardisty * others are totally naive to online survey making

[13 Jun 09 14:35] * c_schmitz * hehe yea, PHPSurvey=ages ago ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:35] * c_schmitz * *PHPSurveyor

[13 Jun 09 14:35] * macduy * dhardisty+jwestfall, that's great!

[13 Jun 09 14:36] * jwestfall * However we have a few leaving us soon, and a few more coming in the next few months that I expect will be completely naive regarding survey development online

[13 Jun 09 14:36] * macduy * we need LS2 to be stress-tested out there, by the actual users

[13 Jun 09 14:36] * c_schmitz * let me ask, you two are usability experts?

[13 Jun 09 14:36] * c_schmitz * (sorry for my ignorance)

[13 Jun 09 14:36] * dhardisty * great! you can email me at djh2117@columbia.edu any time

[13 Jun 09 14:36] * dhardisty * no, we aren't -- but we are psychologists

[13 Jun 09 14:36] * dhardisty * so that's something that may help a bit

[13 Jun 09 14:36] * c_schmitz * ah ok ;)  sounds great

[13 Jun 09 14:36] * dhardisty * we study decision making

[13 Jun 09 14:37] * dhardisty * but we use online surveys all the time

[13 Jun 09 14:37] * c_schmitz * haha, well with the LImeSurvey team you have a pathological example for hard decision-making ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:37] * c_schmitz * just kidding ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:37] * dhardisty * that's why I said it would be best, if holch has time, for him to direct the UI stuff and we will assist him

[13 Jun 09 14:37] * dhardisty * haha

[13 Jun 09 14:38] * c_schmitz * yes, I see

[13 Jun 09 14:38] * jwestfall * Well, as one of my colleagues is fond of saying, just because we study decision making doesn't necessarily mean we make the best decisions ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:38] * c_schmitz * So we need to get you two in touch with each other

[13 Jun 09 14:38] * dhardisty * yes

[13 Jun 09 14:38] * dhardisty * us three ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:38] * dhardisty * don't forget jon

[13 Jun 09 14:38] * dhardisty * aka jwestfall

[13 Jun 09 14:38] * c_schmitz * yes, sorry, i meant two parties

[13 Jun 09 14:38] * jwestfall * eh, I don't feel forgotten, I'm mostly lurking today anyway

[13 Jun 09 14:38] * dhardisty * right

[13 Jun 09 14:39] * jwestfall * my e-mail, for the record, is jon@jonwestfall.com

[13 Jun 09 14:39] * c_schmitz * ok.. thank you very much

[13 Jun 09 14:39] * c_schmitz * soudns great!

[13 Jun 09 14:39] * dhardisty * would you developers like more feedback now on specific things in the interface? or should we wait until we connect with holch?

[13 Jun 09 14:39] * c_schmitz * lets connect first

[13 Jun 09 14:39] * c_schmitz * it is all subject to change

[13 Jun 09 14:40] * dhardisty * ok, sounds good

[13 Jun 09 14:40] * c_schmitz * nothing is firmly set yet, except maybe that there will be  a nice dashboard coded by Hai (macduy)

[13 Jun 09 14:40] * c_schmitz * :-)

[13 Jun 09 14:41] * macduy * ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:41] * c_schmitz * so you see also Hai will need input on the functions that should be availabe in the dashboard

[13 Jun 09 14:41] * macduy * many pages will be based on a widget- interface

[13 Jun 09 14:41] * dhardisty * also, by the way -- both Jon and I have some programming experience, so hopefully we can understand most technical stuff you might tell us

[13 Jun 09 14:42] * macduy * so lots of suggestions, expectations and ideas, just send them to macduy@limesurve.org!

[13 Jun 09 14:42] * dhardisty * I worked for a couple years doing php/mysql web development

[13 Jun 09 14:42] * c_schmitz * no worries, you will ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:42] * macduy * (*macduy@limesurvey.org)

[13 Jun 09 14:42] * dhardisty * great, thanks!

[13 Jun 09 14:42] * c_schmitz * carsten.schmitz@limesurvey.org here

[13 Jun 09 14:43] * dhardisty * so for now, how can we reach holch? maybe we can message him through the limesurvey message board

[13 Jun 09 14:43] * dhardisty * or do you have his email address?

[13 Jun 09 14:43] * macduy * wait a sec

[13 Jun 09 14:44] + ChanServ enables 'Op' status for macduy

[13 Jun 09 14:46] * macduy * holch: holger@rothemund.org

[13 Jun 09 14:46] * dhardisty * great, thanks! Jon and I will email him, and CC you guys

[13 Jun 09 14:46] * macduy * sure!

[13 Jun 09 14:47] * c_schmitz * next week, same time ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:48] * macduy * yep, any other issues?

[13 Jun 09 14:48] * jwestfall * I'll try to make it. It's an 8 AM meeting for dhardisty & I, and being academics, early mornings aren't always our most productive times ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:48] * dhardisty * ok, sounds good -- although it's a little early here (8am on Saturday, and I'm on student time ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:48] * dhardisty * so we will come when needed, but maybe not every week

[13 Jun 09 14:48] * c_schmitz * we can try to do it an hour later, but then it is getting very late for the Ausssies among us ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:49] * c_schmitz * we will see what we can do ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:49] * macduy * we'll see and let you know. Are you both on the mailing list?

[13 Jun 09 14:49] * jwestfall * No big deal

[13 Jun 09 14:49] * dhardisty * great

[13 Jun 09 14:49] * dhardisty * no -- how do we join?

[13 Jun 09 14:49] * jwestfall * No, but we should probably add ourselves

[13 Jun 09 14:50] * c_schmitz * https://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=74605

[13 Jun 09 14:50] * c_schmitz * the developers list

[13 Jun 09 14:50] * jwestfall * adding now...

[13 Jun 09 14:50] * c_schmitz * great

[13 Jun 09 14:50] * dhardisty * thanks

[13 Jun 09 14:51] * macduy * dhardisty, jwestfall: just to make sure

[13 Jun 09 14:51] * macduy * when you let people test and bug-hunt LS2

[13 Jun 09 14:52] * macduy * make sure they follow: http://docs.limesurvey.org/tiki-index.php?page=LimeSurvey+2.x+Installation

[13 Jun 09 14:52] * macduy * esp. the part how to post a bug report or in the forums

[13 Jun 09 14:52] * macduy * that's all ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:52] * jwestfall * will do

[13 Jun 09 14:52] * macduy * thanks

[13 Jun 09 14:52] * dhardisty * ok, no problem

[13 Jun 09 14:53] Mazi is now known as Mazi|away

[13 Jun 09 14:54] * macduy * ok, that's a wrap I guess

[13 Jun 09 14:55] * dhardisty * great, nice to meet you guys

[13 Jun 09 14:55] * jwestfall * Alright, thanks for the info, hope we can help.

[13 Jun 09 14:55] * dhardisty * yeah, thanks for taking the time to meet here today

[13 Jun 09 14:55] * macduy * same time next week. Thanks for coming everyone!

[13 Jun 09 14:55] * dhardisty * like I said, I'm sending out that email...

[13 Jun 09 14:55] * dhardisty * later!

[13 Jun 09 14:56] * c_schmitz * ok.. thank you!

[13 Jun 09 14:56] * macduy * see you all later ;)

[13 Jun 09 14:56] * c_schmitz * Have a nice day!

[13 Jun 09 14:56] * dhardisty * you too

[13 Jun 09 14:57] < jwestfall has left